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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 5:12 PM |
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I noticed that Granite/Pine Creek (walking Pine Creek Rapid) is in here twice, once under tougher III and one under Medium IV.
Any consensus on where it belongs?
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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 5:15 PM |
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We might also want to split up Gore creek into two sections...the upper section where you put in near East Vail and take out in Vail and the lower section where you put in in Vail and run down to West Vail (before you go into Little Dowd Chute and then Dowd Chute).
Upper Gore Creek - Med III with some good surf (depending on level) in the Vail Golf Course and at Betty Ford Hole
Lower Gore Creek - Tougher III to Medium IV if you run all the way down to the Dowd Chute takeout. |
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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 6:17 PM |
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Originally posted by outdoormikeg
I noticed that Granite/Pine Creek (walking Pine Creek Rapid) is in here twice, once under tougher III and one under Medium IV.
Any consensus on where it belongs?
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Good Catch!
Originally posted by outdoormikeg
We might also want to split up Gore creek into two sections...the upper section where you put in near East Vail and take out in Vail and the lower section where you put in in Vail and run down to West Vail (before you go into Little Dowd Chute and then Dowd Chute).
Upper Gore Creek - Med III with some good surf (depending on level) in the Vail Golf Course and at Betty Ford Hole
Lower Gore Creek - Tougher III to Medium IV if you run all the way down to the Dowd Chute takeout. |
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I don't really know this run, would it be common enough (run long and often enough) to include in the list? |
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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 6:36 PM |
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Clear Creek of the Ark is a great intro to V boating run you should consider adding to the list. Check it out - http://www.eddyflower.com/RunDetail.aspx?RunId=245
This run has some sweet camping areas right on the river. I'd be down with leading anyone interested.  |
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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 6:58 PM |
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| Gore Creek is one of my backyard runs. It is typically broken up if you run it after work but could be done in one day if you started early. At higher water we have run from East Vail to Avon and had a blast. |
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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 7:08 PM |
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This stuff is so dependent on water level, but I would probably leave Granite in the tougher III.
Paul, I will probably take you up on the CC Ark offer!
josh |
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| Links | Posted: 14 Apr 08 7:32 PM |
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In the old 'Stepping Stones' thread most of the runs were links to the run description on Eddy Flower. I don't know how easy this would be to re-implement, but it was super convenient. 
Thanks for getting this back so quick. As a new boater, I've spent a lot of time looking at it this spring. |
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| Posted: 14 Apr 08 8:36 PM |
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| Noticed that there's two foxtons in the Med III. I'd probably put the boulder garden in the tougher III range. Maybe put Numbers in twice since it's so quintessential: Easy IV below 1000, medium IV 1000 - 2000 (I cant speak above 2k). |
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Here are the page numbers for CRC II. I printed it out and glued it to the front page of the book.
Truly Beginner:
Pumphouse (Colorado) ……96
Deckers/Chutes (S.Platt) ……………………………………219
Milk Run (Ark, below 1500 cfs) ………………………........44
Filter Plant (Poudre) ………………………………………………...56
Grizzly (Colorado) ………………………………………………………82
St. Vrain (Apple Valley Bridge to park) …...............246
Cemetery (Roaring Fork) …………………………………………190
Rancho to State Bridge (COLORADO) ………………96
Lower Eagle (WTP to Trestle Rapid)…………………128
fort collins town run
Easy III:
Lower Blue (to ~1000, portage dams) ……………104
Boulder Creek (town run) …………………………………………242
Pinnacle Rock (Ark - low water, gets big at higher flows) …………37
Golden Play Park …………………………………………………………228
Lower Foxton (below the normal take out to the confluence) ………224
Med III:
Shoshone (Colorado) ………………………………………………………87
Lower Blue (Over 1200) …………………………………………………104
Bridges (Poudre, below ~ 3’) …………………………………57
Frog Rock/House Rock, aka Narrows (below Fractions) (Ark) ……………45
Brown’s (Ark) ………………………………………………………………42
Middle Eagle (below the Chute to Avon) …………………………………129
Foxton w/o Boulder Garden (NF of S. Platte) ……………………224
Lower Mishawaka …………………………………………………………. 59
Lower Clear Creek from the first tunnel down …………………228
Upper Foxton w/Boulder Garden (NF of S. Platte) …………224
Tougher III:
Westwater (Colorado) ………………………………………………76
Fractions (Ark) ……………………………………………………………45
Upper Blue …………………………………………………………………105
Waterton (S.Platte) ………………………………………………………218
Lower Elk (Yampa)…………………………………………………………268
Upper Rustic (Poudre- tougher w/white mile) ……………67
Gore Creek (Eagle)…………………………………………………………. 132
Lawson (C.C.) i'd stay off the dumont section: the rock is mostly road blast.
Edwards Mile (Eagle) ……………………………………………………… 129
Granite/Pine Creek run on the Ark (walking Pine Creek rapid) ……………49
Intro to IV:
Pineview (Poudre) ………………………………………………………………58
Royal Gorge (Ark) ……………………………………………...…………34
Lower C.C. (Riogor Mortis to Golden) ……………228
Slaughterhouse ……………………………………..………………………….192
Upper Clear Creek (Kermits to 119) ……………….230
Upper Mishawaka ………………………………………………...……………60
Lower Rustic ……………………………………...…………………………….66
Medium IV:
Royal Gorge 1000-2000(i feel it's more difficult than the Numbers) …………34
Alto, Alto South Boulder Creek……………………….……………………240
Bailey (walk Four Falls, Super Max, and Deer Creek) …………226
Boulder Canyon (above the park) ………...……………………………243
Dowd Chute (Eagle) …………………………….……………………......…131
Numbers (Ark) ……………………………………………..……………….....…48
Granite (Walking Pine Creek) ………...……………..................49
Tougher IV:
Gore ( walk Gore rapid and maybe Tunnel) ……………….………98
Bailey ( walk the top 1/2 of Supermax) ………………...…………226
Pine Creek (<1000) ………………………….………………………………….49
Royal Gorge >2000 ………………………..……………………………………34
Middle Narrows (Poudre) ……………….……………………………………65
Intro Class V:
Gore (running the sneak at Gore Rapid and Tunnel) …………98
Bailey (running everything) ……………..……………………………….226
Gillman Gorge (Eagle) …………….………………………………………..134
Blackrock ……………………………………..………………………………..229
Lower Narrows (Poudre) ………………..………………………………….65
Encampment River……………………..………………………………………169 |
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| Posted: 15 Apr 08 8:52 AM |
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| I'd be happy to add links to each run on the list and email it to badazws6 to edit the orignial post. badazws6, what is your email address? |
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| Posted: 15 Apr 08 9:26 AM |
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I can do that. My address is badazws6. I removed the notation about walking Pine Creek and made it a IV. I would like to take you up on your offer on CC of the Ark but I don't think my skills are up to it at the beginning of the year, but I'll hopefully be looking for some into V at the end of the year.
Since this is no longer a class II/III site, can someone provide input on Medium V and Tough V?
MR |
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| Posted: 24 Apr 08 11:47 AM |
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i'd keep cc ark out of the "intro to class V". it's a committing run that's difficult to scout/ portage either before or once on the water and the vegetation is fairly pristine and fragile compared to bailey or gore, or p. creek. also, a swim would suck and the water is pretty cold. it's a solid class V- run and a great prep for harder class V stuff.
encampment is another fairly committing run at med-high and higher flows. i had a rowdy higher water run up there a few years back in which we missed the scout for damnation leading to a beatdown (not me this time) and extended swim. it's also a long run and while a hike out is possible, it would suck.
dan
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| Posted: 24 Apr 08 12:00 PM |
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I mean for intro's to be - levels so V- IV- etc...
Are you suggesting there should be a intro class V something easier then a V-?? Something like a V-- as well as a V-?
MR |
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| Posted: 25 Apr 08 10:59 AM |
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for intro class V i'd like to see a few class V- but mostly IV+. and the V-'s should be easily scoutable and protageable once on the water. much like gore and bailey. take what you want and leave the rest for another day. cc ark is read and run V- with a fast pace to it. kinda like upper ten mile. just my thoughts. have you paddled upper ten mile? that would be a good indicator for cc ark.
dan |
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| Posted: 25 Apr 08 11:34 AM |
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Nope, havn't stepped up that far yet. Relaying in input like this. Thank you.
That's kinda what I was going for with the tougher IV, noice I have gore and bailey but walking stuff. |
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| Posted: 25 Apr 08 7:29 PM |
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I added the links as best I could. If anyone sees one that is wrong, let me know.
Thanks,
-leo |
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| Posted: 25 Apr 08 8:16 PM |
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| Thought that Plateau Creek (unless this is only a front range thing - maybe it is since westwater is not listed either?) would be worth adding to the easy three's column. The site calls it a four, but that is really only when things get well above 1K, which isnt very often. Only concern would be that a beginner has a roll as the pouris rock could be a downer in a swim. |
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Well Welll.....my first time on an EF forum, and what a great discussion.
Though I could not input, i'd also love to hear the next couple steps. Perhaps more steps are needed even at the V level? (Mid V and Hard V).
Also, are the runs in each section in any particular order??? (meaning, is it ordered by difficulty, or just by how they were thought up?)
I wonder, though, is it indeed concencus that lawson is easier than the lower CC run? I personally feel otherwise, but then again, i'm on the lower run much more frequently since it is so close, and i like ending in the park! While i'm at it, what are thoughts on Gore rapid vs. tunnel?? - i haven't got my balls together yet for tunnel, but have a few successful gore rapid runs under my belt. How does the meat line compare? I guess i see my crew starting to run tunnel consistantly, but not the meat line on gore. That's probably typical, eh? Shit, though, when i see the playboats driving hard left and boofing strong, that looks cool and is encouraging.
Looking forward to the VC!
S |
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| Posted: 27 Apr 08 11:01 PM |
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Originally posted by lpongan
I added the links as best I could. If anyone sees one that is wrong, let me know.
Thanks,
-leo |
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Looks great, thanks Leo!
Originally posted by Steve Kahn
Well Welll.....my first time on an EF forum, and what a great discussion.
Though I could not input, i'd also love to hear the next couple steps. Perhaps more steps are needed even at the V level? (Mid V and Hard V).
Also, are the runs in each section in any particular order??? (meaning, is it ordered by difficulty, or just by how they were thought up?)
I wonder, though, is it indeed concencus that lawson is easier than the lower CC run? I personally feel otherwise, but then again, i'm on the lower run much more frequently since it is so close, and i like ending in the park! While i'm at it, what are thoughts on Gore rapid vs. tunnel?? - i haven't got my balls together yet for tunnel, but have a few successful gore rapid runs under my belt. How does the meat line compare? I guess i see my crew starting to run tunnel consistantly, but not the meat line on gore. That's probably typical, eh? Shit, though, when i see the playboats driving hard left and boofing strong, that looks cool and is encouraging.
Looking forward to the VC!
S |
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I just added the medium V and hard V sections. I don't feel qualified to populate them though, so I'm looking for input. I havn't run gore or any of the above sections of CC, although I hope to correct that soon, so I don't think I should comment on what is harder then what there. |
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| Posted: 28 Apr 08 10:49 AM |
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| Great thread guys. |
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| Posted: 28 Apr 08 1:01 PM |
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I would say Lawson and Lower are about the same difficulty-wise, but Lawson is way more fun. Lawson is longer and has much less flatwater, but it doesn't have any single rapid as long as Screaming 1/4 or as steep as Elbow. Fewer moves to make on Lawson, but the drops just keep coming. Sort of mentally taxing. That's my $.02. Clear Creek is just about as much fun as you can have in a boat!
josh |
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Poudre River Kayaks
Posts: 3
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| Posted: 28 Apr 08 3:44 PM |
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| i'd take bailey out of medium IV and just leave it in tougher IV even with the walking. The royal gorge at 1000-2000 doesn't really compare to bailey. I think the continuous nature of bailey ups the ante. I'd put LSB in the tougher IV category as well, walking the bigger drops. Spencer Heights is a good intro to V run with the proper portages/scouts. Ten mile is medium IV but tight. Middle NSV is tougher IV/intro to V. This list seems front range specific, but a little farther away: Cross Mountain goes in there somewhere between medium and tougher IV depending on water level. The CB creeks w/o obj are good intro to creeking/intro to V runs, the east is easier. |
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| Posted: 28 Apr 08 9:45 PM |
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Intro V
- Gillman (not that popular but i really like this run, heads up for the man made mank, Slurry Pipe scares me)
- Clear Creek of the Ark (awesome run, great camping, you'll love this one)
- Grape Creek (alot of bad press but I would give it a thumbs up)
- Upper Tenmile (good times...so much fun a higher flows...none stop action)
- Lower Narrows (poudre)
Medium V
- Lake Creek (awesome run)
- Embudo (top 5 favorite)
- Escalante (great preseason run)
- North Fork Crystal (super fun run, overrated difficulty)
- West Fork Clear Creek (looks very manky, this one scares me...)
- Big South (top 5 favorite)
- The Source (full on brawl, very pinny, wear body armor)
- Black Canyon (don't rub soap on your forhead before the portage to prevent poison ivy, may cause blindness)
- Oh Be Joyful (top 10 favorite run, slides galore, 25 footer scares me)
- South Saint Vrain (be prepared for a beatin)
Hard V
- Vallecito (lower the better...this one scrares me...parker can you guide me down?)
- Meat Grinder
- Cyrstal Gorge
- Yule Creek
- Cheeseman (love to try this one, anyone willing to take me down?) |
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| Posted: 16 Jun 08 9:03 PM |
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| I ran the lower north fork of the poudre on Sunday. Easy III - the paddle across Seaman Res. Sucked big nuts - shoulders and back are still feeling it. The fences were washed out accept one towards the end. Get it while it's flowing |
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| Posted: 17 Jun 08 12:09 AM |
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Thanks guys! This is great!  |
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| Posted: 17 Jun 08 3:35 PM |
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Thanks Paul!
Originally posted by Pablo
Intro V
- Gillman (not that popular but i really like this run, heads up for the man made mank, Slurry Pipe scares me)
- Clear Creek of the Ark (awesome run, great camping, you'll love this one)
- Grape Creek (alot of bad press but I would give it a thumbs up)
- Upper Tenmile (good times...so much fun a higher flows...none stop action)
- Lower Narrows (poudre)
Medium V
- Lake Creek (awesome run)
- Embudo (top 5 favorite)
- Escalante (great preseason run)
- North Fork Crystal (super fun run, overrated difficulty)
- West Fork Clear Creek (looks very manky, this one scares me...)
- Big South (top 5 favorite)
- The Source (full on brawl, very pinny, wear body armor)
- Black Canyon (don't rub soap on your forhead before the portage to prevent poison ivy, may cause blindness)
- Oh Be Joyful (top 10 favorite run, slides galore, 25 footer scares me)
- South Saint Vrain (be prepared for a beatin)
Hard V
- Vallecito (lower the better...this one scrares me...parker can you guide me down?)
- Meat Grinder
- Cyrstal Gorge
- Yule Creek
- Cheeseman (love to try this one, anyone willing to take me down?) |
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| Posted: 24 Mar 09 4:34 PM |
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Yo Matt...GREAT LIST...you outa add links to all the runs 
Any runs missing from EddyFlower, if so I can add them? Anyone interested in doing a compare against the Guide Book of the Southern Rockies/EddyFlower to identify any missing runs 
By the way, we broke up Granite & PineCreek into separate runs. 
Probably outa add Cross Mtn (Intro IV), and South Boulder Creek (Tought IV or Medium IV). |
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| Posted: 15 May 09 8:55 AM |
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| bump |
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| Posted: 15 May 09 10:26 AM |
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No need to bump, it's on the Colorado Kayakers page on the right.
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